Guest Podcast with Jamie Breese owner of EVO ULTRA, a business leadership peer group for CEOs and MDs of £multi-million companies

Todays podcast is with Jamie Breese.

Jamie Breese currently runs EVO ULTRA, a business leadership peer group for CEOs and MDs of £multi-million companies. This operates in England and Wales and each mastermind meets monthly to share challenges and ideas. He also operates EVO Business Club which is a breakfast networking business and just enjoying it’s 8th year of business. Prior to this, he ran 10 stadium business expos and the popular Only Connect networking parties which welcomed over 500 attendees per meeting.

Jamie is also author, compere, auctioneer and antiques/declutter expert. In his last TV series, he appeared in front of several billion cumulative subscribers in more than 200 countries on The Discovery Channel’s US hit prime time show Auction Kings and has presented numerous complete UK series from BBC2's The Life Laundry with Dawna Walter and The Antiques Show with Fiona Bruce; to 3 years of ITV1's hit daytime series Everything Must Go! and This Morning. 

He was the antiques and collectables columnist at The Sunday Mirror from 2000 to 2020 and is a charity auctioneer who has been used by UNICEF, The Make-A-Wish Foundation, Rolls Royce, Teenage Cancer Trust and many others. 

He has auctioneered at venues from the Dorchester to The Ivy; before the Prime Minister and hosted an event with The Mayor of London. Jamie has had the honour of offering unique lots ranging from a Dali and Rugby World Cup Final tickets, to tea with Jude Law and a personal gift from Her Majesty The Queen. In 2017 he sold - at an international charity auction in London - a pair of rugby world cup match worn boots to The Princess of Monaco. He was a committee member and volunteer for the Lord Mayor of Bristol’s Charity Gala Dinner for 3 years, an event he also hosted each year and received the Lord Mayor’s Medal in recognition of.

Find him:

http://evo-ultra.com/

http://jamiebreese.co.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiebreese

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:13

Jamie, welcome, good afternoon. Yes, so yeah, we're not. We're not gonna get, I don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 2: 0:22

It's in my eyes, there was. There has been 364 days in this year, and so there did not exist.

Speaker 1: 0:30

And I'm and off the Welsh in Irish anyway no.

Speaker 3: 0:35

I'm a council tax paying Englishman in Wales now paying council tax in Wales. I'm pleased to say I have literally got the Welsh rugby bug in it for about a year now. Yeah, really have got a bug. I was literally standing up shouting at the top of my voice. They're really genuinely like on my own. Of course I'm wondering what the neighbours were thinking, and it was really sad to see what happened with Wales as well this weekend. But a good effort, yeah good effort on every, on every count, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:04

I think it was. It was. I think we've got a look and see how far we've actually come from with it we're when we put and it brought laws of happiness. This alternative to rugby podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:17

So were you interroled before Come on the bridge.

Speaker 3: 1:20

Yeah, in a very amateur way Many years ago I was brought up in London. Yeah and mindful, I'm not going to go back to when I was a baby or anything, but when I played for the under 16s for Richmond for a very short period of time, so I think that was before rugby became fully professional and whatnot. Richmond actually quite a big name back then.

Speaker 1: 1:43

Yeah, but it was yeah Well, London Welsh ended up. That's where they ended up. They quite a bit Too late.

Speaker 3: 1:49

And then in the mid 90s I worked for the then chairman of Bath Rugby over the bridge there in England and and that was a thing I was right I graduated from art school. I'll probably tell you how I got to art school in a moment, but I my first job was working helping to run a video production company in the mid 90s with the wife, sean from the valleys, and running a video production company in Bath actually making corporate films and things like that. It was amazing experience straight out of university and the boss was the chairman of Bath Rugby and back then I really realized how absolutely Bath in the southwest of England was an it literally it's it's complete identity and probably remains still is more so of an ancient Rome, you know, is actually rugby. Yeah, back then it was absolutely at its peak that they were the best team in the world, I believe.

Speaker 1: 2:48

Yeah, they were brilliant and it's, and I guess, a little bit like the Principality Stadium here. It's right in the heart, isn't it? I loved, I used to go there a lot because very good friend of mine, sister did a lot with Dyson, so obviously he was a main sponsor. There was an e some reason to go to a box there. Yeah, like quite readily. And I said I love going there. She loved just turning up and training there, such a great place.

Speaker 3: 3:14

And then the atmosphere of the rugby. So Tony Swift was the chair and shone, this was his then wife and and he had an interest in a financial company actually called Rob St Taylor. So we had this video video production office, painted orange a bit like your office, orange and blue a little bit like your office in the mid 90s, with an editing suite. And then how we got that was a expensive avid, which was one of the first digital editing machines. We're making corporate videos and one of the first ones we did I, straight out of art school, had no idea it wasn't film school. Well, the first videos we made was a little corporate film based at the Wreck and Barth. It was a corporate for David S Smith packaging. I think they called DS Smith. Now like an international client straight out of art school was a real gift. But that's the power of sport and rugby and connections and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2: 4:01

I guess we'll touch on that, especially in Wales. Now, here, where sport and business is so interwoven, you know, because they're all more so the rugby, because it's a bit like getting football in Ireland. The people that play rugby in Wales are seen a higher pedestal. I think they're for what they do. You're representing your region or your club and your country. You're representing the three or four million people on there. They are held up there and those, those people then are the whole thing of rugby, is it won't all the way down to such a small little village and so that the people can associate what. He has climbed up the ladder and now he represents me in the countries. It's unique in any other country. I know, you know England has football and rugby and different sports, but I think for for Wales predominantly you know the football people will disagree with me predominantly rugby, and it's more than with society.

Speaker 3: 4:58

Like I said at the top of the of the pod, I've been here for about a year, so I came to Wales to help make a TV show, actually in the valleys Maybe we'll touch on that later on as well. But I noticed very, very quickly that just what you said. I was living in Bristol and 55 minutes an hour away. Totally different world, obviously, in some cases, different language, everything from different road signs, but a warmth, and I'm very patriotic English. But I have to tell you the warmth of reception I've had in Wales and I'm not just saying that it's been magical and that connection to close the loop on the bath story was that I thought bath was like the epicenter of world rugby. No, it's, it's Wales, and particularly here in Cardiff.

Speaker 2: 5:42

So you've been to the games on the stadium.

Speaker 3: 5:44

I have. It was extraordinary the yeah. Two days before an England, an uncomfortable England Wales game, I decided I had a friend from Ukraine. They said what is this game? Rugby. They were a refugee, incidentally, and I was determined to get tickets. Two days before I reached out to a member of a business I run and we had tickets later that day for sold out game. And that's another thing I've realized, because it's business and sport are intertwined. You can reach out to someone in business and they will know somebody who's got a ticket and it's not. It's not like they're not dodgy, it's like they've got a box and mate of theirs has dropped out. They've got two tickets. And what? The most amazing thing about that game a few months ago I think it was in February, march time that international packed stadium, great game, not brilliant, but they they showed the Ukrainian flag on the screens and there was a minute sign. It's remember those in conflict. It was a really special moment. I thought, yeah, this is a very special country.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Yeah, it's, and you listen to what players say about the Prince Polly Stadium with a packed stadium is like like Coliseum, you know they. It is a totally different. Like you have the old New Zealand players talking about coming to the to play, they just love it and the drive into the city because they usually stay in a hotel a little bit outside and they drive in and there's just the streets lined with supporters, everyone getting on and it is. It is amazing and I think that's a little bit difference the week because we have a stadium right in the heart. It's like twicking up saying anything sticks to me. Do I beat me? It's a little. Not much happens for you, is it Because you are right in there?

Speaker 3: 7:28

I will say this, even though it's not a rugby podcast it sounds that way.

Speaker 3: 7:32

I will say this the two memories now already which like cast in my soul, which were very special. I met, had the privilege of meeting a multi capped former Welsh player called Rupert Moon, a fellow broadcaster actually, and I reached out to him. Somebody who knows somebody that's what I've worked out in Wales as well Know somebody. They say you're good, they communicate that you're good in that person's either referring you to. So Rupert Moon met with me and he was chairing. He just finished chairing. He won't mind me saying this. I'm sure the rugby charitable trust is a foundation which looks after they do many things and it was. I just came into the back end of the meeting I didn't really know what it was, just to meet with Rupert, to talk to him about working with him, actually to engage him in my business, and only afterwards I realized that the trust these were like. Like the captains of industry, the head of the BBC here in Wales. I mean it was an amazing. They're all eating sandwiches. I thought that was a perfect networking opportunity. I completely missed that one because I was nibbling my sandwiches, just sat there on the corner of my own. But it was an amazing meeting with Rupert and I realized, yeah, once you've played for this country and you know you're and you played on the hollow ground here. It's something very, very special here in Wales and abroad. And then the other thing is in August again. I can't believe how I lucked out I'm a newbie here. Really.

Speaker 3: 8:49

In Wales we had Warren Gatlin come and speak, the head coach for Wales, and it was the day after he had announced his squad for the World Cup. He was probably the one of the most in-demand people in sport in the world. In the world at that very day and I must say this, and everything which goes on in these meetings perhaps will touch on this later, is very confidential, but one of the members was hosting a fundraising event for the ABF Soldiers Charity and they just said, they just said to Warren is there any chance we get a squad signed shirt? And he said, yeah, I'll be good for that. Words of that effect. And as I was walking Gats out of the meeting down to his car back to his hotel, he stopped and he turned to me in my PA and looked confused like he'd forgotten his jacket or something. He said, oh, I mustn't. Can we make sure we get you remind me about to get this shirt signed. I thought he just switched his phone on. There must have been a million messages from around the world, from every news media organization will question them about his team, which had just been announced to the afternoon before. And he actually stopped and spent a moment to think about a charity, a pledge he'd made to get a signed shirt and I auctioned it on Friday at a golf club. They made some good money, so that was a really nice thought.

Speaker 3: 9:59

I think there's a measure of a man is not what they do on the world stage, but there's little details and that's a little private moment. I'll never forget that he would have had the world on his shoulders about that squad he'd picked and the dual captain ship and all this sort of stuff around that. And he stopped and he really made a point and it was away from everyone else, it was just his own thoughts and I thought, wow, this is a man of great mental capacity. You can remember these things and remember that. I got the feeling that Warren Gatlin, his word is his bond. That was what I'd take away from that moment.

Speaker 1: 10:32

I think there's a lot of people who do say that about him. But now we're giving talks. Boarder on frisbee money.

Speaker 2: 10:41

I was going to come over two more seconds about rugby, but I know I'm going to shelve the stage and the talks board will be asking for us next, Jamie, let's go back to.

Speaker 3: 10:52

Well, I guess we're when I was one From when you were one.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yes, welcome to Everson, one of 16. Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:59

Let's go back to Saad. Let's get you all take them on your journey. That's where you are now. And then this kind of naturally shadow boat. The business now.

Speaker 3: 11:09

So, absolutely, snap Shot was brought up in West London, sheppard's Bush, in the 1970s. But I told you my age and you both looked shocked. I'll just say that for the podcast. Yeah, we just dated this podcast. We're talking about the rugby, haven't we? But I'll date it even further. I'll date myself and go somewhere in the early 70s, something like that, and my mum had always been in the book business. She'd been an educationalist.

Speaker 3: 11:35

We were from quite a humble background, I would say we. I remember distinctly not being able to afford things like ketchup and stuff, so not cleaning poverty, but we were definitely unresourced at times. You know, and that's the nature of my mum being a freelance and my dad, at one point most of his life he was a professional magician and then he got into photography and that. So he met my mum, who was a journalist at the time. So, long and short. I grew up in West London happy memories and then, when I ran about 12, 13, my dad remarried and he started off in the antiques business at London's Mecca or one of the two Meccas, I would say, of antiques collectibles called Portobello Road. So I would find myself on a Saturday morning and afternoon sat on the market stall in Jones Arcade in Portobello Road. Now Portobello Road on the outside just looked like a bunch of posh houses, because it is, and back then I think it was still. You know, not your Gate wasn't the place that you saw in the movies. You know, even in the early 80s it wasn't, you know. But there's a whole underworld of those big houses where there's a labyrinth of corridors and what is effectively underground markets. It's really odd Arcades I don't know how they fit them on the Portobello Road, but they're there. So we were in one of those stalls and my stepmother and my dad were both antiques dealers at that point, selling stuff largely from the 20th century. So I got a passion for design. That carried through to wanting to be a designer and artist of some sort.

Speaker 3: 13:07

I came to university in Bristol. I loved my time at university. I really loved it. But I kept my own market stall going, which was at the other Mecca, camden Stables Market. I kept that going at the weekends and would go to and from London from Bristol and I think that's where I got a passion for both art, for a little bit of creative stuff, but also an appreciation of design of the past and collectibles and also a little bit of that buying and selling. Running a market stall is definitely cut and thrust, especially at Camden. Stables Market literally used to be stables. I could literally write a sitcom about the other stall holders who were in my unit.

Speaker 3: 13:50

We had a guy I had the number one hit in the 60s. He performed with Otis Redding live. We had a guy who lived permanently in the Civil War in his head in the American Civil War and dressed as such. We had a guy who used to be a professional ballet dancer. We had a I have to leave other thing details out but you will never meet a more interesting mix. Sounds like a quote from Stiles here Mosas is the space. You'll never meet a more interesting mix of people, certainly at that point, who are at the end of antiques and collectibles. They attract the whole sector attracts an unbelievable rich set of characters. They've all got stories which would make a podcast of themselves. That was under short intro.

Speaker 2: 14:34

You've nailed that. You mentioned Mosas. I see in Star Wars it's my boy's birthday. Since half six this morning we were looking at a Where's Wally type of book for Nakrugu, for Yoda. It was those things, these labyrinths of areas and places where anything was sold. When you were saying that, I was just dozing off, I was going. I've seen that picture this morning where it's just chaos and there is animals, aliens, whatever they are, and you can take it back to that day. Fun fact, the weird places.

Speaker 3: 15:12

Fun fact I graduated. I passed the travel agent, which is not a word of a lie. I hadn't had a holiday for years. I did well. I did well at college and I really worked it. I didn't mention that, but You've got a tattoo.

Speaker 3: 15:22

I you can't see my face on a podcast, not bad. There was a place called Tatooine in Tunisia, so I just thought I'd always wanted to go. This was before the prequels and the more recent series on Disney Plus, so Star Wars was just three moves at that point and it was a distant memory really for most people. But for me it was, like for many people, it was an absolutely integral part of my development as a person, because it was a fairy tale, it was a myth, and it's another reason why I got into film, by the way, but that's something maybe we'll talk about or not. But I went, I walked off the travel agent, I went in it was back in the days it was pre-internet and I said I there's no chance I could go to Tunisia. I went I think it was, I think I had 45 minutes to go and pack a bag and flew to Tunisia, I think from Birmingham at that time and it was amazing. And I went to the Star Wars Hotel, which is in a tiny settlement called McMarter. So for those of you who know the movies and even the more recent ones, I think they featured there's a In Tunisia.

Speaker 3: 16:26

In relatively ancient Tunisia there were a tribe of people called troglodytes and the name. They're underground dwellers and they have this beautiful kind of costume and they used tattoos in henna and they would live in this underground complex which was in the movie, in the very first Star Wars movie in 90, I think it was filmed in 75, 76. It is literally still there. It is an underground dugout, a series of caves built many, many years ago and lived in up until relatively recently. I was the only visitor there at McMarter Because, yeah, it was crazy, I was on my own. I had to get to L'Oage halfway across the desert. I shared the L'Oage with a Libyan family and, don't forget, I think we were at conflict. Basically, we were in conflict as British people with Libyan.

Speaker 3: 17:10

It was a great moment to share this kind of taxi cab it was a few pence and then go to this Luke Walker's, luke Skywalker's home on my own and they just had to handwritten sign saying the Star Wars hotel so you could sleep in the place where Luke Skywalker has his lunch with Uncle Owen and Aunt Veru. Literally it was exactly. You could see little moments where in the mid-70s the art department still left the bits and bobs in there. It was that fresh, it was an amazing moment and people say don't go to those places or meet your heroes, but I would. Yeah, it was a very strange experience. It was like a very strange village settlement and magical to be there on your own in a place which you'd studied over and over again as a student of film, but also as a lover of those original films. It was a very, very special moment in my life. I'll never leave me on your own in Luke Skywalker's dugout home.

Speaker 2: 18:06

You've never no, I'm just thinking yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:10

No, I don't Like seeing those films. Like you know, I grew up in those films as well. Do you know what I mean? And it's kind of I didn't even realise that it was the yeah and there is a Tatooine.

Speaker 3: 18:21

But yeah, for those who are interested, they're still there. Maybe you can Google it. You know Google it Ever since I visited. But Mutt Marta is the name of the place, and there was a, I think you paid a few pence and you could literally sleep in the set so you could get your head around that.

Speaker 2: 18:35

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to go there. I wouldn't be allowed you know Need to go alone two weeks away.

Speaker 3: 18:42

Yeah, yeah, exactly the reason why that film touched on people and the reason why it connected so deeply with people is that George Lucas Many people don't realise this was a student who was partly mentored by a professor who wrote a book called the Hero of the Thousand Faces, and this professor had studied different cultures and different myths. I've got some credibility here because I thought I was a filmmaker for one. I had a Hollywood deal as well, which I may tell you about, so I've got some credibility. I looked deep into it and George Lucas studied with this professor and used his wisdom and his new discoveries from this book to discover that there are universal stories from across cultures and across time which resonates somehow when you listen to it, in the spoken word or on the screen, or even in something as simple, relatively simple, as a poem. There are universal archetypes, and it goes back to Jung, and these archetypes, from the Hero to the Shadow, figures usually the Viden, Darth Vader in the Star Wars case, but usually, incredibly, the same story is being played out over and over again, and when you? There's a really good summary of this, actually, and it's a book by Christopher Vogler V-O-G-L-E-R called the Writer's Journey, and it's one of the most eye-opening books I've ever read. And what you realise is that human beings have this very strange thing as a species Words and the spoken word and the written word are just something which the animal kingdom never benefits from. And there's little pearls of wisdom.

Speaker 3: 20:08

Where we talk about Heed the Orphan talks about the shaman in Thousands of years ago in different tribes and how they were looked up to and how they would encode stories and pass on wisdom to the fellow tribespeople and the younger people in the tribe upwards to the elders. And one thing stuck in my mind, and this is why I became a writer I think the shaman would often sit down and move runestones around in front of the tribe and people go whoa, what are these stones with strange abstract marks on? And then the shaman would move the runestones into a different order and then he would say this means life and people go. Okay, Then he would move the runestones around with these abstract markings on into a different formation and show these people that this means death. And people go oh, how does that? You know this is clever stuff and this is the root of the word spelling.

Speaker 3: 20:59

It was magical Spelling. If you think about the word spelling. It's literally casting a spell, how a word or something written or spoken can completely change the energy. Yeah, so that's all in this book by Vodker. But yeah, George Lucas was had a unbelievable in a moment in time. He was mentored by this incredible Joseph Campbell was the professor and he had and Star Wars is literally beat for beat, story point for story point a deep unveiling of mythical structure, and it's no surprise that it touched the whole world for so many years and still does. Yeah, it's a fact.

Speaker 1: 21:42

Well, that's some good facts, and it's all about business.

Speaker 3: 21:47

Yeah, I stopped you on your intake of breath asking a question there because I went off on my Joseph Campbell lecture.

Speaker 1: 21:53

But yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2: 21:57

We've gone through a channel, a lot of things before and not only a sport and stuff, but that's the first time Star Wars has come up.

Speaker 1: 22:05

But I think it's good to see that Star Wars has a deeper meaning than what people actually think.

Speaker 3: 22:12

Profound and unreal it really does. If you read the hero of the thousand faces, you'll realise that George Lucas is a genius, of course, but he was lucky enough to be at the right time, at the first point in human history, to have somebody who'd studied all the cultures and all the great myths and stories and realised that there is I'll just speak one thing, and I'm sorry to go back to it the Herald. The Herald is one of the archetypes in this story structure and if you place the Herald at the right moment in the story, you're going to sell a screenplay. The Herald announces important news, as they did in the courts of medieval England, for example, and Europe. And guess who the Herald character is? There's two of them. It's R2-D2 and C3PO, and literally in Return of the Jedi, c3po is both an interpreter droid, but he's also making proclamations and is carrying important information, and R2-D2, of course, is carrying the plans to the eventual destruction of the Empire. So the Herald figure is something that makes an important announcement which the hero gets wind of, and that's often a call to action, but it is literally C3PO. I've got a story about C3PO.

Speaker 3: 23:22

I went to go and get my. Okay, we're going to jump forward to when I was a filmmaker and a presenter. I was in the American Embassy to get an 01 visa. It was really difficult as a British person to go and work in the United States. It's called an exceptional talent and I've had three. It's unbelievably difficult. You have to have an attorney in America lobbying the unions. You have to have a letter from the Oscars and the television union saying they don't object to you coming to either direct or present TV shows, both of which I was doing in a small way at various points and I was all cleared. I was good to go.

Speaker 3: 23:53

I had to go for my interview at the American Embassy, so I traipse over from Bristol, you leave your phones at the hotel, you can't take them in and I'm in a queue. There's one person in the queue for the 01 day and I recognize him, but nobody else does. It's Anthony Daniels who plays C3PO and of course, because I'm a Star Wars nerd, he was really happy that I recognized him Because you know I said you were Shakespearean actor before 1974 when you got hooked into Star Wars, and he was so touched that I and we'd gotten so well Back then. I was on British television a lot, so he kind of recognized me. He eased things off and the fact that you get you know one means you.

Speaker 3: 24:27

There was, rufus Sewell came along, kylie Minogue I was an amazing company but it was. I had half an hour, 45 minutes, just me and C3PO in the relative cold, very early in the morning in central London, nobody recognizing him, and he was going there to get his visa. And, by the way, he's the only actor now alive who's been in every single Star Wars movie. So he's an incredible guy and he was such, a such a lovely gentleman, a huge humor. But I literally grew up with a. I still have a postcard of R2D2 and C3PO on my wall. But I grew up with the story of Star Wars album and it was him on my front cover and I listened to that every day and I'd recreate Star Wars in my mum's front room in Sheppard's Bush using furniture.

Speaker 2: 25:13

Can I say in our house, my little man, it's R2D2.

Speaker 3: 25:17

The idea is it. I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 25:19

It's not R2D2. It's R2D2. That's just the way it is.

Speaker 3: 25:23

The Herald was C3PO, and that's just one example. The Herald and he's deployed in that story to announce important news and also the carry important news. And also they're in Shakespearean terms. They're considered the low characters who often the story's told for. And you think about it? Yes, star Wars, again we've. I'm sorry to get you wrong, but it is one of the greatest movies of all time, probably by, maybe, apart from Citizen Kane or Vertigo by Hitchcock, it's considered the most popular movie of all time, along with Snow White, actually, yeah, and Toy Story 1 is now in the top 10 of Best Movies as well. So classic stories, but you know it's worth to give it a thought as well.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Wow.

Speaker 1: 26:04

That is some. That's amazing, this TV film. Let's go to Evil. Is it Evil Group or were you, was it?

Speaker 3: 26:17

Yeah, so I have a few small businesses. Many years ago I was working as a broadcast the covering shows about antiques and collectibles, and I was finding that I the time periods between being booked to do a season or series even the UK was getting longer and longer. It's a hard gig. It's like being an actor, being a presenter and I was a presenter with specialist knowledge and what I discovered certainly in British TV and maybe in America as well it's cyclical DIY shows are popular, cooking shows are popular, property shows are popular, and then antiques comes back around again. It seems to be like a five or six year cycle.

Speaker 3: 26:58

I was one of those cycles so I used to organize parties for my friends just in a roof terrace in Bristol and friends would come along. I'd pay for all the food and drink and I'd realize hang on a second. After about two summers of doing that, we had a chef at one point which sounds very kind of a little bit avant-garde and stuff, but it was really lovely. Just bring nice people together and we get. We get some really interesting friends and friends rocking up and I'd make some new. It was just lovely and I really need to monetize this because I'm just paying for it. So I booked a hotel and for 225 people turned up. So it was just so that started this thing called business networking, which I didn't know what it was, I just called it business and social networking.

Speaker 2: 27:36

That's my calling, now telling me to to.

Speaker 3: 27:40

I can't think of a witty thing to cover my story. I put my phone on silent, let me. This happened at a funeral, so you put your phone on, do not disturb.

Speaker 3: 27:49

I'm telling you, if you've got a phone made by somebody called the Apple company, I like them very much. I used to train their products to get me for university If you put an iPhone on, do not disturb which I promise you, I did for the audience of doubt it's still. If you've got a schedule alarm in there, it will still go off, and it went off in a funeral. Actually this time last year. It was absolutely excruciating and as embarrassing and what's just happened. But moving on, I've kind of lost track a little bit.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Evo parties.

Speaker 2: 28:20

I discovered what networking was.

Speaker 3: 28:23

It was kind of landed in by mistake back in 2008, actually, and there were just a huge success. So we did them in Cardiff, oxford and particularly Bristol. We ended up having 5, 555 on 65 people per meeting. This is bonkers, yeah, but it was unusual. It was unusual and it was at the beginning of the credit crunch, not what I realized.

Speaker 3: 28:41

I didn't realize back at the time that in an economic downturn, where people are struggling and there's uncertainty, people still want to meet and congregate. And, by the way, if you have an evening event of which is only connect was more so than ever, especially if there's bottles of champagne and free Krispy Kreme donuts, which we got deal the local factory, and people dress up in black tie, you realize that actually people still need to get together, right? So, john Ford, a few years I do, I do and seven or eight years ago this month I started in fact next week I started a business called Evo business networking. I started it as a side hustle to doing stadium sized events. It's been really good fun. It's a small business I can't pretend otherwise, but it does bring people together, predominantly for breakfasts, in a kind of a formatted way we use online, and it grew exponentially during the lockdown because, guess what? There was only a certain amount of things we could do and I had a business which was already five years old four and a half years old so it grew during lockdown.

Speaker 3: 29:42

Three years ago, during the lockdown, I felt there was a space for business owners, particularly business owners who are working in the SME, or small and medium enterprise as a code word. There might be a space where we could bring maybe 12 leaders together in a room, talk about problems and challenges, share ideas, because I knew a few of my friends who are running quite large and complex businesses and organizations. They would say it's lonely at the top. I hope none of my members mind me saying this, but every single member, almost bar by none, has said that at some point, privately or publicly. If you're running a business, if you have staff, if you're turning over a few million quid or pounds, very, very few people understand the pressures, the unique set of circumstances and the fact that you're on call Doesn't matter what. Whether you've stepped away from the business as a chairperson, you're usually on call in some way show, perform, and I found that this morning myself, actually in a major way, actually had to make quick decisions and move quickly as the company owner to avoid a very bad situation, relatively speaking, in my business I resolved it any minutes beforehand. So yeah, evo Ultra, a peer group and I opened up in England and I've opened up in Wales.

Speaker 3: 31:10

At the beginning of this year In Wales it's been going so, so well. I'm not knocking England, it's been going well there as well, but in Wales it's something very, very special here about business leaders wanting to come together. And when I had the idea I phoned the former head of the British Army, general Sopita Wally, the four-star general. We'd done some work together for the previous year. I think it was the same day as the idea kind of call it Evo Ultra, separate company, make it separate, not networking as such, a little bit of networking, but more about coming together and sharing ideas and problems.

Speaker 3: 31:48

And I phoned Sopita, had a quick chat we met online because it was during COVID and he very kindly agreed to chair a group of 12 business leaders, not knowing who they were, but it's good if you've got something else, a track record to point to when you're trying to encourage somebody to take a punt, as it were. And he took a punt and 30 meetings later this month. He continues to chair one of the groups over the bridge in England and it's a group of 12. And he's an amazing leader, just a leader of leaders, I would say. As I said, he was the chief of the general staff. It was a four-star general and has his own company called Amicus, which is a leadership consultancy. But also it was almost mind boggling this there's 12 directors of a business called General Dynamics Corporation, one of the biggest companies in the world, it's a Fortune 100 business, and he's one of the 12 global directors and they, yeah, they're a big company.

Speaker 2: 32:51

Did anyone? You've said there isn't as such, a networking event, and I think I know even one of the members, nick, was out here the day and he said it's very I'm trying to use the words it's very difficult to moan downwards, I think, or something to that effect.

Speaker 1: 33:07

Everyone's taught to moan upwards when you're a business owner.

Speaker 2: 33:11

And it's difficult when you are that one. So I presume, like you said earlier, it's very confidential, that people can have the freedom to not have a moan but just tell other people that are in the same type of environment what's going on, how they're feeling, and somebody can, either physically or through some wrapper and arm around them and they can get it off their chest and they can hear other people that are on the same level as them understand and say I've been there before, this is what I did.

Speaker 2: 33:41

It seems like a very nice niche group for those people that are up there, having somebody that they can either rely on or just vent. A bad deal, because as business owners we all have bad days. But I know we're looking up here. We've got the two of us. We can mourn to each other. But when you're that high and you've got that many people underneath you. Sometimes it can be a lullaby.

Speaker 3: 34:04

I used to have a healing massage for many years, especially when I was doing television. It was, the pressure was unrelenting. So, like every two weeks I had a really powerful deep tissue massage and I'd say to the healer, the practitioner who's doing the body work on me, but who heals you? Who heals the healer? In fact he presented himself as a healer because he did stuff with crystals and coloured light, which actually work, by the way. Just have a coloured light therapy in acupuncture points. So I said, who heals you?

Speaker 3: 34:30

And it turns out that most healers, most practitioners of body work, massage, they actually have a formal kind of group so they swap, they trade services. So a masseuse who's really working deeply, and so you're taking that energy off someone, I'm convinced of it, especially if it's negative they need to want to help them reset and ground themselves and they have a relationship with other practitioners in the block or in the organisation or centre where they work. And so you always ask who heals the healers? Then you discover that therapists and psychotherapists, they have a people who observe, they're not just professionally, but help them. I forget what they're called, but they have people who specifically to help them and listen to them, who are helping others, but who helps the business owners? We were touching as we were chatting and juicing ourselves and it came up recently in a meeting and I'm forgiving me for going over all ground with you both, but I'm sure one of our members at Ultra said recently that without the small to medium business owners and the taxes which they pay in the UK here, that civilisation would collapse. And I go that's quite a bold statement and it sounds about right, it feels good, but then they explain for a couple of minutes how that actually is the case and then of course you understand that the taxes you don't have a police force if you haven't got and civilise it, yeah. And then people riot and loot and you know whatever it may be. But you realise, yeah, actually it's the predominant amount of business is done.

Speaker 3: 36:01

So who is the moderator? Who's the support, who's the? Is there a fraternity of business owners who actually help each other? And that's, I think, going back three years. That's why I started Ultra. So there is a bit of networking which goes on, but it is listening and talk about how you're feeling.

Speaker 3: 36:21

The day before each meeting we reach out to the CEOs, who are the members, though? Either MDs or CEOs of ordinarily five million, turn over businesses with staff crucially usually more than 10 staff and we ask them for a mood score. So how's your business? Zero to 10? How's your personal life and what's your mojo? What's the thing which gets you out of bed in the morning? Zero to 10, 10, high, zero, low. We get those in and then the group chair person can review those at the beginning of the meeting. We can identify a member I can't go into details because it's Chatham House rules or confidential but a member who might be in a really bad way, and I can think of several situations. Quite recently a member was in tears, another member had a one, they'd been in bereavement and then something absolutely horrible on the personal and then we rally round.

Speaker 2: 37:06

So that's massively powerful it is. That's not networking. That's pure support for individuals on the same level as you that they can't talk to anyone else because they're probably at such a level that they should not, so they feel they should not show any sort of vulnerability.

Speaker 3: 37:24

So true. Who can they talk to? Who can a business think about it If civilization depends on small to medium business owners? I forget the percentage of businesses in the UK here. I think it's something like 90% of businesses at SME I under 250 million turnover if you use that yardstick. That is the society, that's the civilization.

Speaker 1: 37:43

Hello, where was?

Speaker 3: 37:43

I.

Speaker 1: 37:44

I was doing the stats for the other day for something.

Speaker 3: 37:46

It's something else. So who understands the nature of having to make payroll every month and pay? And then if you've got hundreds of staff so let's just use Nick as an example, because it's public he's got hundreds and hundreds of staff. I would imagine many of these staff have mortgages and many of these mortgage owning families have probably have kids. So I Nick wouldn't mind me saying this so if he couldn't make payroll, for example, one Christmas, god forbid.

Speaker 3: 38:15

Families, you know, run the risk of losing their home. No presents, no work, no money, no business owners, no business owners, no business owners, no business owners. And then the other thing I do. I mean it's a huge, huge pressure. And, as you rightly said, there men lead business owners who do they talk to. Often they can't speak to their family because maybe the family don't understand or they don't want to bring the problems back into the family domain, because the family got their own problems. Sometimes Friends aren't running multi-million pound companies and doing something different, and why would they want to burn their friends with it? And then you can't speak to your staff and sometimes you can't speak to your board. You certainly don't probably want to speak to your board about a personal issue with another board member. So that's why Ultra is up and running and that's why I put the billboard in Cardiff City Centre just today.

Speaker 2: 39:08

So that Mr John's assisted with that.

Speaker 3: 39:10

Yeah, One of your former subjects on the show, I think, if in an early episode, I think you said he was. So, yeah, we had fantastic creative done by Rebel Lion. In Cardiff we have a nice billboard in the centre city. I did use something called the interweb before I started the business and I've looked in Wales, where we're today, and there are no peer groups. I'm not joking. There's no sales and marketing here. It can take up to three years for us to welcome one member to one of the groups. I must be honest with you, it's years. These people are busy. They want to take time out half a day a month, that's gold. So I've tried putting a billboard, a huge billboard, up in the city centre. It's one of the biggest ones, illuminated, and I thought just to build awareness. And it says grow, support, lead, share. And I thought, yeah, those are the words and those are Matt's words, by the way.

Speaker 2: 40:01

That's massive, though just listening to it. Networking is all good and well. Sometimes people don't actually need to network, they just need someone there to be available to listen to them Because, as you said, it's very difficult to go back home because family couldn't care less. Maybe at times and maybe family related issue, and it's almost like an invisible stress that if somebody goes to their friends that they've grown up with and they rock up in a very nice car and they've got a Rolex, and they just come from the three million pound house and go, what do you know about stress? You've got no stress. We can't pay the bills. Everyone has stress and so format, but the people that have been successful in this environment seemingly are not allowed to be worried and stressful about making pay of law for their staff and all that. So it's really nice that there is an organisation or a group of people that can get together and ban the shit that's going on in their head together to help each other.

Speaker 3: 41:01

You mentioned cars and that's a funny one. I'm a petrolhead but I've just recently bought an electric plug in hybrid. But it's a very nice car and I found, having said to people about the joys of living in Wales for the last year, I was in a queue in a coffee shop I hope this person is not listening and I literally paused for one second in the car, like going to the car park or something yesterday and I was getting beat, beat, beat. I literally didn't even pause, I just like reduced my speed and I realised that it's a nice car, of course, and actually. But I've worked really hard up until two and a half years ago. I did nothing but seven day weeks, probably 12 to 18 hour days.

Speaker 3: 41:48

Honestly, it's come at a price and I also believe that it's not always about profit in a business. If you have lots of staff, it is because you've got to make that payroll, you've got to pay people's livings. But I've been lucky to have quite small businesses in a way with not too many staff and lots of freelancers and that sort of thing and events is very much like that. But I realised, yeah, actually being quite nimble is helpful, but it's come at a price. And the car thing is interesting If you have a really old. Okay, I'll be authentic, because I'm sure they wouldn't mind me saying I'm sponsored by Jaguar Land Rover and I was, up until a few months ago, I was turning up in a 20 year old Jaguar Land Rover product let's say a discovery and I just thought, hang on, what are they thinking? Here I'm presenting myself as leading leaders I've got the form, actually at the time the boss of Barclays leading one group, the head of Sony Wales and the head of the Welsh Football Association running other general subpoenae wall, leading other group, and I'm turning up in a 20 year old car. Outside their show there's not a single car which is less than five years old at Jaguar.

Speaker 3: 42:53

Sitting at Jaguar Land Rover and arriving in a 20 year old discovery. It's very practical, by the way, and once they've gone through their problems, you've dealt with them and it was a great car to have because you can throw it around, go up mountains in it, and that's what I like to do. But it doesn't alter the fact that it presents an image and it's not the right image actually. It should be something a bit newer, a bit more economical, not the really big gas guzzling ones of days of old and I realised, yeah, I can't. It says so much about who you are and if you have something to flash, it's a no. No, because that's your customers money is spending on nice, flashy cars and if you have something to vanilla.

Speaker 3: 43:31

I'm not sure if it presents yourself as the company owner. It's a lot of sort of two-ingferring I was doing. And then, of course, now I'm thinking about doing an EV conference along with an AI conference in Wales. Actually, I'm teeing that up with various people and therefore I can't rock up in an ICE engine. So actually these considerations are the thing. It's kind of you have to think about a bunch of things when you run a company.

Speaker 2: 43:55

It's mental because for us, we plan for people, we plan for exits and businesses for retirement and all that. And one of the underpins of the work we do is we tell people where to put their money and we segregated out into different portfolios and stuff like that. So technically, we tell them where to put it. They think we look after it. If we rock up in an Aston Martin, I'm paying you too much money, shane. If we rock up in a no to expect a 27-year-old Toyota Starlet, am I the only person paying you because you can't afford a decent car? It's a really, really tight line.

Speaker 1: 44:36

We had this conversation about ordering cars. We had a list of them. We were like can't order that.

Speaker 2: 44:44

Because there is a perception exactly. We have a perception in the world of finance. I'm either paying you too much or I'm subsidising your whole company because the amount of money I'm paying you, you can't afford a better car than that. It's a really, really strange one.

Speaker 3: 44:57

When I was a broadcaster, it was okay, it was fine, it was actually. You know, that was okay to have a nice car, and I should add, I think I touched this when I arrived but I could only ever actually drive a car 10 years ago because I couldn't get insurance. As a broadcaster, I was working for the Sunday Mirror for 20 years and I was a charity auctioneer. Uniquely, those combinations put you out of getting insurance. Whatever they say, you can't find it. So I rode motorcycles and when you're a presenter, you have certain network televay to give you a car, so you get to play some time and I lived in cities. I cycled all the way on a motorbike, so it was all good. But here's the thing. So I finally found a company and actually I was living over in England, but it was a company in Wales, a famous company called Admiral, and they were the one company who would insure me, but it was their online version called Elephant, weirdly. But I remember having about two months of conversations and this is something. Again, it's a first world problem, but just, I want to put this in context. Bear in mind I was doing seven at that point, probably five, six days a week. I was working very, very hard and not doing a good job over profit. But when I could finally pass my time I was doing well on television. So I did have to show on affect my own show every day on ITV1, which is one of the main it's one of the five main channels in the UK with the Co-Present. So I did that. I was doing that day in, day out. It was absolutely grueling. If you make a mistake you can't go back and say to the editors of the production team I've got a valuation wrong, please change it. So you know it's very high pressure stuff. So I anyway. So I finally found this company to insure me.

Speaker 3: 46:26

I was thinking about what I wanted, the dream. So I went out and bought a pre-loved Aston Martin. It was amazing. It was a soft top. I only planned to own it for a year and that was the plan. I think most people who were not super high net worth individuals they actually own a car for about a year. But an insurance was a big chunk of the of the consideration. But if you can imagine, and I must tell you as well, months beforehand both my parents had died within a month, a month and a half of each other. It was a torrid year, so I thought look, I'm going to do something here. I'm this age. I've never driven a car. I learned in a Clio. And then I went out the next day and bought this beautiful Aston Martin.

Speaker 2: 47:04

So your very first car was an Aston Martin.

Speaker 3: 47:06

Correct yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:09

I'm waiting for the story.

Speaker 3: 47:10

Come on. So the first day, the next morning, so I go to the dealership and it's an unusual mark and for those who are listening, abroad, there's not Aston Martin dealerships all over the UK. There certainly wasn't one anywhere near me. So anyway, I found somewhere and I went to go. Look at the car and the long and short it was, I finally thought I'm here. I've spent three months the first world problem, admittedly, but I've spent. It's a dream. I need something to deal with the grief, I need a vent, I need to explore, I need to get into a car, I need to enjoy myself. I love fast bikes and Harley Davidson. So here's a lovely car.

Speaker 3: 47:44

So I went there and I scoped it out. I sort of almost knew the one I was going to get. It was pre loved, so you know. And as I arrived to go and buy it, it was a long journey from the dealer and there was somebody flying their baby around the outside of it like Superman, and I realized and the end is it was a couple. So I realized that they were there and I got the impression. I kind of got the impression that this is the final decision they're going to make on this car. So, and I had fun enough. I didn't understand things like financing because it's very, very complicated, right. So, and for various reasons, I was able to get in and get into that car and just make a decision there and then, without trying to work this all out because it was a nightmare, so that was a lucky thing. So I got this dream car. My then girlfriend got in alongside me. I knew I was insured. That took about two months to negotiate.

Speaker 3: 48:37

It's called risk of association, by the way, if you're a presenter and a journalist, so they figure that in fact they know that you may pick up a celebrity. So the example would be if I picked up a Premier footballer, somebody from Arsenal, tottenham, chelsea, and I had a crash because I was an experienced driver. But I had a crash because I'm likely to be in those situations at charity events. I'm a journalist, I'm upsetting. You know, even though I wasn't a journalist, I wrote about tactics and collectibles. They put you down as a journalist. So you effectively I'm not being flippant here but they assume you're going into war zones, upsetting organized crime, all this stuff which I wasn't. I just write about antiques and collectibles, but they have to put you in that category. So again, massive first world problem. But you cannot get insurance. That's the bottom line. Certainly that triple situation I was in.

Speaker 3: 49:22

So I had my dream car.

Speaker 3: 49:23

I thought it was just about the missile. I managed to get it. Then I got into it and I realized, oh, this is not really easy. It's a really heavy. You know, it's a hand-built car, it's my girlfriend for the first week and I have no shame here Left a bit, right a bit, because I don't even driven motorbikes. We're in the middle right. So if you're the right of something, how do you drive a car? So the first morning I went to cost something called the Clifton Suspension Bridge, which is a beautiful history and he knows it. There's a chicane, there's a high level concrete chicane which goes up to midway through the panels on the car. I went through that and absolutely ripped up the wheels. Doesn't matter how many rides. A bit left, a bit. Yeah, it was a nightmare. So again, poor little me, but it was an amazing first thing I did First weekend drove to North Wales again with my friend Ben Gelfren, going left a bit, all the way through these beautiful mountains up towards, yeah, up to, from Abergareny, aberystwyth, up to Snowdonia.

Speaker 3: 50:15

It was just amazing, so let me put it to you that if you've never driven a car, if you've always loved cars, if you love performance vehicles, if you always had that poster when you were a kid, you literally have dreamed about owning a nice car. And you hit a certain age which is much later than you think and you're finally able to drive a car and you can buy your dream car. And it's a manual, and it's a V8, and it's a 4.7 liter and it's a soft top, and it's 2012 and it was a nice summer and there was a lovely spirit in the country because of the Olympic Games and all this sort of stuff. And then you drive to North Wales and you can just about do it with a copilot, going left a bit, right a bit, because you sat the wrong side of the car, because you're not in the middle, and you make it, even though I ripped up the wheels on day one. It was magical, it was one of the best experiences of my life.

Speaker 3: 50:56

And I'll say this and this comes from working very hard and putting customers first usually, and believing doing a good job well is the most important thing about profit. That's what I've. Up until very recent, I really, really felt that. So they say money can't buy happiness. I'm not a super high net worth individual, anything like that, I'm really not. But sometimes if you've saved up and you've done the right thing and you've waited and you have this dream thing, it can buy happiness.

Speaker 3: 51:24

I had an amazing year. I was heartbroken, I was grieving, but what put a smile on my face was being able to drive this beautiful hand built thing when nobody went the W word as I drove past because they associated it with cool things like James Bond. It's a cool brand and it was hand built and people knew that and it was a little bit loud, all that jazz, but it was magical. So for anyone who's struggling in their business and thinks there's light at the end of the tunnel, you think you can reward yourself and it's a really important thing to do is to reward yourself at least once. And I make no bones, I sold it and got myself into a mid 2000s mini Cooper or something you know, and that's another story. So, but it is well worth it.

Speaker 2: 52:04

I think to a point I disagree that money does not buy you happiness, because there has been something out recently about conference board time we talked about this morning played for Spurs and he said on one day he was on two months in a year he went out and bought a Lamborghini, a Galardo, a Hummer and a 1970s Cadillac in one day. And you said this morning right, yeah, but it's a bloody good day. It doesn't bring you happiness money. I think what is important is if you understand what makes you happy and you align your spending with that right.

Speaker 2: 52:38

That's more important because far too many of us especially since March 2020, fire so much money on Amazon, on plastic items, trying to find happiness, whereas if happiness, I think, is having coffee with your friends, then that spending aligned with that makes sure the happiness is forever and it actually reduces your spending, because you don't spend money on shit Otherwise pardon my French you spend it on what things make you happy, if forever and ever. You've always grown up with a James Bond fascination and you want to nasty marketing DB5 or something, go and bloody buy it if you work hard, if it's aligned with happiness, so I have no issue with that, but I think the kinds of money buying you happiness doesn't exist. If you're just trying to find happiness, you have to know what the happiness is first and then align the spending with it. It's my rand over.

Speaker 3: 53:30

You're not a financial planning expert by any chance.

Speaker 2: 53:33

I'm a financial planner. The experts in brackets might not be applicable.

Speaker 2: 53:36

Yeah, but that's the kind of thing that you're doing here. We do try and talk to people about it. It's not saving and squirreling money away. It's actually bloody enjoying what they have and making sure they have a great life now and the future's taken care of. I won't spend it. I'm far too many. Go spend the money. I'll finish with this story. A couple of weeks ago there's a client and I asked him. I rang him up many, many weeks ago and said look, we need to start spending money. And okay, I said I'm going to give you five weeks.

Speaker 3: 54:08

And then I'm going to give you a. You were saying this to your client.

Speaker 2: 54:10

Yeah, that was good cool.

Speaker 2: 54:12

Five weeks and I want you to start thinking about what you're going to spend, because it's just building up and you've worked hard all your life, right? This was Tuesday, a few weeks ago at about half past four. Wednesday at 10 past five he rang me. She said I need 20 grand. I said for what? I'm just in a car showroom buying a car. I wanted you to have a few weeks and we've had a joke on it. But because I know the rest of the family, they've, they've spoken to me and he's delighted.

Speaker 2: 54:46

He needed that little push to understand he needed to spend it and it was me giving him the authority to go and spend it and he's delighted. Now he's bought a new car because he really needed one. So it's not about putting it all to the side all the time. It is for young business owners who we have to kind of rein in, but for the older business owners it's the ex-applies and you can never get your ducks lined up in a row, because that's something that always happens. But you can actually start to plan further out for reducing your working hours or doing whatever. So people need to spend money. Maybe not in the nasty market, man, the very first car, wow. So you need to spend money.

Speaker 1: 55:33

Yeah, that's a big one for us because we spend. We have a lot of clients who we're all money away all their lives and come to their retirement and like, well, I spend a thing they live on like effectively, while I would class the COVID budget and you're like we have to encourage them to spend. That's a good job.

Speaker 3: 55:52

You're like a candy shop. It can get people.

Speaker 1: 55:54

It's actually very hard it is If you spend all your life saving and now you've been taught to spend that money and you've never been a spender before. It's very hard to change someone's mindset, yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:07

It's a paradigm shift, I would say, if they've been prudent.

Speaker 1: 56:10

It takes a bit of time and I've got some clients where it's taken three years into retirement before they've eventually let the reins off because they trust in the process, trust in, like the fact that they're not going to run out of money, they can do the things they want to. It can be very interesting and, like Shane said, we have to bring some of the business owners in because they're spending a bit too much and not keep their little ones little corner of the eye on the future, because you've still got to keep that in, you know, in check and still have some fun. But it's teaching them new ways of actually investing for the future, protecting for the future.

Speaker 3: 56:49

I understand.

Speaker 1: 56:51

Yeah, it's a bit deep now. I think it's very deep.

Speaker 2: 56:56

I think I prefer the Star Wars and Aston Martin chapter.

Speaker 1: 57:01

No, that's good.

Speaker 3: 57:02

Thank you, Jeremy.

Speaker 2: 57:02

Thank you.

Speaker 3: 57:03

It's my absolute pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on and who knows, maybe I'll come back in a few years time and talk about my next little project.

Speaker 1: 57:11

We do like a repeat.

Speaker 2: 57:13

We did a repeat the other day, yeah, with another Aston Martin story.

Speaker 3: 57:16

Really, oh, very nice. You've got 250 podcasts in the can, so we've got to flip it around on you guys. How many episodes is this going to run to? Is it unlimited?

Speaker 1: 57:26

Yeah, I think so we enjoy it. We took a little bit of a hiatus while we kind of had a rethink of how we were going to do things in the business and going forward, but I don't see a stop in. I think we'll take it to another gear.

Speaker 2: 57:41

I'd like to go out and about again. I'd like to go to the business owners place of business and chat to them without giving too much away going. You know I don't like them started the staff out there, but I'd like to go in house and do the video side of it and I don't think we ever envisaged getting probably past 20 and then we got to 100 and then it's just going on and on.

Speaker 1: 58:05

I think the stats say something like two thirds of podcasts don't get past five or six episodes. It's stupid like that. We kind of.

Speaker 3: 58:13

Well, it's consistency, isn't it? That's a big number you've done.

Speaker 1: 58:18

And I think video would be the next one and we're having conversations where we did a little bit of video. We did video several podcasts before, but we want to get to the point. I think we're maybe we do one business and we do film it and it becomes effectively like a series. Yeah, I think. I think that's something you'd like to do, because we enjoy, we like talking to business owners. We learn a lot of stuff from it as well.

Speaker 2: 58:40

And I don't think I'm interested, so um you know you'd be fine, Better make up.

Speaker 3: 58:46

May I be on the nose and invite you listeners, if they're interested, to visit a website about ultra. Yeah, yeah, okay. So if, um, if any listeners are interested in joining a peer group or just discovering more about what a mastermind for businesses in the UK can look like, they're encouraged people to visit evo, evo, hyphen, ultracom and there's some lots of information, photos and all that jazz there.

Speaker 1: 59:13

Oh well, link to that in the show notes anyway, Very nice We'll link to all that in the show notes. We'll get all that from you afterwards.

Speaker 2: 59:23

Thank you.